HRC, GLAAD deplore Clinton endorser's 'pansy' remark

I've cross-posted this to my blog, where you'll find a photo of Clinton grinning as the NC gov slurs gays and lots of background on the many problems with the HRC group.

Ha ha! A phony headline we're unlikely to see today or anytime soon appears atop this diary.

According to a Google News search, it was more than eight hours ago that the first mainstream news stories appeared today about North Carolina Gov. Mike Easley endorsing Hillary Clinton's bid for the White House, and saying she "makes Rocky Balboa look like a pansy."

From the SmokingGun.com site, just one of a few that have done more to calling attention to the slur-throwing guv of NC than HRC and GLAAD:

   APRIL 29--With Hillary Clinton standing at his side, North Carolina Governor Mike Easley today described the Democratic presidential candidate as so tough that she "makes Rocky Balboa look like a pansy." Easley's compliment, as it were, may offend some voters since the word "pansy" is often used in a derogative fashion to describe a male homosexual.

Yet neither the Human Rights Campaign nor the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation has bothered to issue condemnations deploring Easley using this antigay derogatory term, as Clinton stood silently at his side, smiling.

Rest assured, if John McCain received a governor's public support and that governor used the slur "pansy" to make McCain look good, both HRC and GLAAD would waste no time cranking up their PR machines to condemn the endorser. The gay advocacy organizations would also be demanding the GOP presidential contender distance himself from the use of the slur.

But in Easley and Clinton's case today, professional homosexual rights groups are silent. Could it be HRC and GLAAD have separate and unequal standards, one for Democrats, another for Republicans?

By the way, the latest news on HRC's site is all about their radio show moving to a new channel. Over at GLAAD's web site, the news is that their awards show will soon be broadcast on Bravo.

•  you must be lost

  by Stroszek on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:01:07 PM PDT

•  Will we expect to see the HRC supporters...

  cut their support just as vigorously as they did over McClurkin?

  I'll be listening to the crickets while waiting for that to happen.

  by khereva on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:02:59 PM PDT

•  ok, so Easley's a dickhead

  Is this really a big deal?

  by subtropolis on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:03:45 PM PDT

  •  why aren't we hearing about pansy gate on the new

    Apparently God damn America matter so YES I'M OUTRAGED! We must have pansy gate 24/7 coverage otherwise there is a media bias.

    by AHiddenSaint on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:16:00 PM PDT

  •  Bitch is just a female dog so I reserve the right

    to use it freely from now on.

    just sayin'

    by second gen on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:00:59 PM PDT

•  Not gay bashing

  Seriously, people are really grabbing at straws lately.

  by BoiseBlue on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:03:57 PM PDT

  •  As Hillary said, "Words have meaning."

    by khereva on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:05:20 PM PDT

  •  and yet a distinguised reporter can be suspended

    for the word 'pimp'...

    by terra on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:08:20 PM PDT

    •  I make these decisions!

      by BoiseBlue on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:15:59 PM PDT

      •  bet you were angry at the words

        God Damn America!

        by AHiddenSaint on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:16:47 PM PDT

        •  Really?

          Go check any Wright diary and see what I had to say about.

          Go on. I'll wait.

          by BoiseBlue on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:20:48 PM PDT

  •  I beg to disagree with you. It shows an utter

    contempt for gay men, reinforcing negative stereotypes. It's every bit as bad as Rep. Geoff Davis' (R-KY) dismissal of Obama, referring to him as "a boy."

    The exact quote:

    "I'm going to tell you something: That boy's finger does not need to be on the button.  He could not make a decision in that simulation that related to a nuclear threat to this country."

    by rontun on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:17:23 PM PDT

    •  And I disagree

      I think it refers to a person being delicate (like a flower) and yes, usually a man, a la Rocky, but doesn't infer being gay, at least not where I come from.

      by Electric Blue on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:21:06 PM PDT

      •  Really?

        I am surprised that anyone would seriously argue that the use of the word "pansy" in that context could be anything other than a slur for gay.

        Maybe it's a gay thing, or you have to be a certain age (like Easley) but I don't have any doubt that it was meant as a slur.

        Whether it's something to go nuclear is a different matter, but I think it's wrong to dismiss it out of hand because you (or a few others) don't understand the word's connotation.

        by Darmok on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:27:15 PM PDT

      •  That's so disingenuous.

        It's like saying that someone from the south who uses the term "boy", or refers to African-Americans as "colored folks", is excused because it isn't viewed negatively, "at least not where I come from".

        by rontun on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:31:40 PM PDT

        •  I have a different interpretation of a word

          (I come from the UK) and you immediately dismiss it as disingenuous [definition: lacking in frankness, candor, or sincerity; falsely or hypocritically ingenuous; insincere].  These comments become so personal, so quickly, it's impossible to have any kind of reasonable conversation.  

          by Electric Blue on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:33:51 PM PDT

          •  Perhaps it's because you're from the UK

            In the US, likening a man to Viola wittrockiana is commonly understood as a derogatory comment on his sexual orientation.

            by dconrad on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:51:05 PM PDT

            •  yeah, but that's not in itself a crime

              to come from the UK that is.

              by Electric Blue on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:03:39 PM PDT

              •  Didn't say it was. n/t

                by dconrad on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:08:28 PM PDT

                •  sorry - was supposed to be a small joke

                  by Electric Blue on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:13:40 PM PDT

      •  You are joking

        right?

        by Crisis Corps Volunteer on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:48:07 PM PDT

      •  Tell me that reply was a snark

        because pansy has nothing to do with delicate in my neighborhood - it's just another word for the F word.

        by Deoliver47 on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:16:28 PM PDT

        •  then that's your neighborhood

          I rarely if ever hear this word and just because I have a different understanding, it doesn't necessarily mean I'm in the minority.  This was not a snark, it was a rendered opinion, and some people on this board these days immediately become hostile if someone disagrees with them.  As an Obama supporter, one of the predominant things that appeals to me about him is his willingness to consider all sides and opinions.  You will see from my previous posts, if it's me you are writing to, that I fully accept that it's offensive to some people.

          by Electric Blue on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:25:27 PM PDT

          •  It's not just Deoliver47's neighborhood.

            I used to do a lot of work for and with queer youth, and some of them were badly beaten by people yelling a whole bunch of anti-gay epithets at them, including "pansy." (This was more than 20 years ago, but I'd guess those kids who grew into men haven't forgotten.)

            And I still hear some older white men use the term with an obviously homophobic tint.  It's a gay-baiting code word.  

            So unless you've had to work with queer kids and adults who've sometimes been beaten badly by people using this, among other denigrating terms, please, do not ever tell me, or any other gay person who has experience of how this word is used.

            Perhaps you could listen to our experience.

            That having been said, I also want to say that I'll give a damn about what HRC has to say when it stops refusing to endorse Jim Neal in NC and when it finally refuses to settle for anything less than a trans-inclusive employment non-discrimination federal bill.  Until then, they remain the DLC of the LGBTQ movement, at least in my opinion.  

            by RadioGirl on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:34:43 PM PDT

            •  Listen, you don't know me

              so don't assume.  My brother's partner was badly burned in a bombing of a London pub which was targeted because it was a gay pub.  This man recovered and danced with my brother at my wedding.  Three people, including a pregnant woman were killed.  There is a memorial held every year at the pub, and several years later a bartender at the pub was chased by violent homophobes and beaten to death.  I know about violence towards gays and this bullshit does not even come close.  

              by Electric Blue on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:40:49 PM PDT

              •  The link is

                http:// news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/798660.stm - I do not know how to embed - sorry.

                by Electric Blue on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:42:36 PM PDT

                •  The other link is

                  http://news.bbc.co.uk/... - we know violence

                  by Electric Blue on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:47:04 PM PDT

              •  I am terribly sorry that your brother's partner

                was burned.  I have worked in anti-violence movements and know very well what the violence of bigotry is.

                I also knew young gay kids who, a little over twenty years ago, were badly beaten by people who, among other things, screamed "pansy" at them.

                I have had death threats and been stalked by homophobes and had my car tampered with by a homophobe.

                So can we please just say we both have relevant experience in this.  Do we need to be in competition?

                I will express my horror over what happened that you described, and my heart opens to everyone affected by it.

                Will you at least admit that I, too, have relevant experience?

                by RadioGirl on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:49:28 PM PDT

                •  Absolutely

                  and I never meant to infer otherwise.  I think your work is very important and I live for the day, maybe in my daughters generation, when your contributions to this end are no longer necessary.  As the devoted sister of a gay man I celebrate his life, tinged with a helping of fear that he will come into contact with one of these depraved thugs.  I am with you all the way on this, I just had a difference of opinion on a word.  Peace.

                  by Electric Blue on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:55:26 PM PDT

                  •  Blessings to you.

                    And thank you, Electric Blue.

                    by RadioGirl on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:15:36 AM PDT

          •  I agree words have different meanings depending

            upon where you are located - but I assure you that in North Carolina, "pansy" was not used to refer to flowers.

            by Deoliver47 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:37:08 PM PDT

      •  An actual homo weighs in...

        Pansy can be an anti-gay slur, or it can mean "weak".  The two have obviously been conflated, and that is itself kind of sad.  But look at the context.  Do you really think this gov was saying that Hillary made Rocky Balboa look like a homosexual by comparison, or that she makes him look weak by comparison?  I'm not even sure what that first one would mean given the gender divide... that Hillary was a mannish lesbian?  That she was an uber-female who could nurture with a glance?  This whole thing is kinda moronic.  

        by tedshubris on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:27:18 PM PDT

    •  Yeah, I thought the "boy" comment was disgusting

      But I just don't see this comment as so highly offensive.

      I am a gay female, and I have a gay brother, and I spend a great deal of time in the gay community, and I'm just not offended by it.

      I'm not saying you can't find it offensive, I just don't.

      by BoiseBlue on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:24:22 PM PDT

      •  How BUTCH of you! n/t

        by rontun on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:43:02 PM PDT

        •  =)

          Well, now, you just pwn3d me!

          I'm seeing from this thread that this is a generational thing. Like I said, you're offended by it, I'm not.

          I guess after experiencing actual gay bashing, it's pretty hard for me to get all worked up about this.

          by BoiseBlue on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:49:20 PM PDT

          •  Empathy

            It's not a matter of whether you personally find the word offensive; instead, the issue is recognizing and acknowledging that others find it offensive, and in fact, he may have as well said "faggot."  

            What I find offensive is how many people are so willing to dismiss this episode.  Maybe it doesn't warrant a massive response, but I think we should at least be able to agree that it was an issue that merits some discussion.

            by Darmok on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:00:40 PM PDT

            •  Fair enough

              I'm still perplexed, but if some find it offensive, I can certainly understand. My beef is with calling it gay bashing.

              Furthermore, I'm wondering of what generation and part of the country this word has a connotation. I just checked with my partner (who is a generation older than I) and she doesn't remember it being used as an anti-gay slur.

              Although I am willing to allow that where she came from, there were much more colorful words for gays than "pansy."

              by BoiseBlue on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:07:09 PM PDT

              •  Perhaps I can offer some illumination.

                I grew up in the midwest, came out in the 1970s. Pansy was the term used in "polite" company to refer to gays. Faggot, f**king queer, fudge-packer, were among the more "colorful" terms impoliticly used.

                Colored folk was the term most frequently expressed in "polite company" to describe African-Americans. Niggers, spooks, and porch monkeys were commonly heard is less gentile settings.

                So yes, there are degrees of offensiveness, yet all of the terms are indicative of disparagement, and I believe, should be condemned.

                by rontun on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:19:32 PM PDT

              •  Let it be a learning experience then

                Try renting and watching The Celluloid Closet sometime.

                The whole concept of describing a man as girly or delicate is that it suggests that they are gay, and it's a long-standing and pervasive practice.

                by Darmok on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:26:05 PM PDT

                •  I've seen the movie

                  And I don't know exactly what you want me to "learn" from this, other than that words change meaning in our language. Of course, we all knew that, already.

                  by BoiseBlue on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:39:27 PM PDT

                  •  Nevermind

                    I should know better than to argue with a denier.  You're right - whatever you and your brother decide is ok, that's ok with the rest of the world.  Just send me a memo next time I need to get over it.

                    by Darmok on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:17:16 PM PDT

      •  You said it yourself

        you are a gay WOMAN.

        by Crisis Corps Volunteer on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:49:17 PM PDT

        •  And I'm also saying

          That it's obviously a generational thing. I also know what my brother finds acceptable (and what he doesn't) and what he would be offended by. This is not one of those things.

          by BoiseBlue on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:54:10 PM PDT

•  Easley is a corrupt good ol' boy

  but I don't think this statement was a big deal.

  by jkddude on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:04:47 PM PDT

  •  Why? Because he used the word pansy instead of

    faggot? It's purely offensive.

    by rontun on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:10:15 PM PDT

    •  because rules do not matter with hillary

      by AHiddenSaint on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:17:18 PM PDT

•  No, double standard

  these organiztions have one standard for white women and a different one for a black man

  by foufou on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:06:35 PM PDT

•  The Human Rights Campaign is a sham.

  Spnj889 recently posted a diary noting that HRC refused to endorse openly gay U.S. Senate candidate Jim Neal who has broad support among North Carolina's progressives. Instead, HRC chose to not endorse in the primary, where Neal is running against establishment candidate Kay Hagan.

  by rontun on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:07:57 PM PDT

  •  Have they been doing *anything* lately?

    I used to donate a great deal to them, but quit a few years ago. I don't know what the hell their purpose is anymore.

    by BoiseBlue on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:11:25 PM PDT

    •  Back when I lived in a major

      ex-Confederate city that shall remain nameless, the "Human Rights Campaign Fund" was notorious for attaching its name to community events for which all the legwork was done by local groups . . . and muscling in on the proceeds.

      Their purpose is, I believe, self-preservation via tchochki marketing: baseball caps, t-shirts, dance mixes, etc.

      As I always said: The HRC is an organization that dare not speak in its own name the human right it promotes, and its logo is two stripes of cowardice on a field of privilege.

      Small wonder they're apeshit over the other HRC.

      by corvo on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:24:48 PM PDT

    •  I believe their purpose is to receive donations

      HRC endorsed LIEberman. I mean, WTF? They're dead to me.

      by dconrad on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:54:40 PM PDT

•  Huh?

  Maybe I am wrong, but I always thought of "pansy" as slang for wimp. Certainly a bigot might use it to ascribe that characteristic to a gay man, but the word itself doesn't carry that meaning.

  Either way, I wouldn't hold my breath for either an apology, or for the press to notice.

  by Olds88 on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:15:00 PM PDT

  •  It's tough to say, but I seriously doubt he meant

    for anyone to interpret it in that way.

    Hypersensitivity? Callousness? I'd say some of both.

    by someone else on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:19:24 PM PDT

•  Hold on a minute

  I hate HRC - yes literally pulsating hate - but I have to say I think the commonly accepted meaning of 'pansy' is 'weak' or 'weakling', and my brother is gay, so I'm super-sensitive to gay slurs.  We can expose her weaknesses, but this isn't one of them.  Let's save our energy for something else.

  by Electric Blue on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:17:39 PM PDT

  •  "pansy" is definitely a slur on a gay person

    Remember the famous 1988 Newsweek cover on Bush the Elder, "The Wimp Factor?"  You can't imagine Newsweek using the word "pansy" on a Vice President or a presidential candidate.  Theres a definite sexual connotation to the word "pansy" and it is an effeminate connotation.  

    by Lois on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:21:31 PM PDT

    •  I don't remember that

      but I think these words are in the eye/ear/mind of the beholder because I wouldn't think wimp meant gay either, I would think it meant weak.  As for effeminate, I think that's a bit more loaded because I think I can infer 'gayness' (not a word, I know).  Look I wish this was something that would blow up in her face, and I acknowlege and sympathise with anyone who feels offended by it, I just don't think it's going to be an issue.  Plus this endorsement is a little flimsy anyway (outgoing gov. etc, what does he have to lose.)

      by Electric Blue on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:49:47 PM PDT

  •  Well, I am gay. And I do consider it a slur.

    From the American Heritage Dictionary:

    pan·sy    (pān'zē)  
    n.   pl. pan·sies

      1. Any of various plants of the genera Achimenes or Viola, especially V. tricolor or its hybrids, having flowers with velvety petals of various colors.
      2. A deep to strong violet.
      3. Offensive Slang
            1. Used as a disparaging term for a man or boy who is considered effeminate.
            2. Used as a disparaging term for a homosexual man.

    by rontun on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:23:40 PM PDT

    •  Look if it's personal to you

      I appreciate that, my poorly made point is that I don't think that was his meaning.  I know people should be more careful with language that can be misconstrued, but such is the nature of this painful competition.  If someone called my bro a pansy I think he would laugh or say f**k you.

      by Electric Blue on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:44:26 PM PDT

    •  Right... so am I, and I don't consider it so.

      Look at the context.  Really look at it.  And tell me that you really think he was saying that Hillary makes an icon of masculinity look gay instead of "weak".  If he was, that would be wonderfully subversive of him.  

      by tedshubris on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:33:06 PM PDT

  •  It apparently depends on your age...

    I'm nearly Easley's age and when we were growing up, pansy was the equivalent of faggot. They were both equally derogatory. Apparently that's no longer the case but since Easley comes from the generation that considered it as a synonym for faggot, I can't give him a pass on it. AFAIAC, Hillary's welcome to that asshole's support.

    by Ian S on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:38:42 PM PDT

    •  He's probably also from the generation that

      "gay" meant happy.  When I heard the "pansy" comment, it didn't cross my mind that it would be interpreted as a slur.  

      by browneyes on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:59:04 PM PDT

      •  You're right. I am from the generation that

        defined "gay" as happy. And I still consider it to mean happy.  What's your definition, and does it conflict with happiness?

        by rontun on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:02:57 PM PDT

        •  I'm a little younger, 35.

          I still remember when I was a kid that the term "gay" could mean happy or homosexual.  

          When I hear the term "gay," my reflexive interpretation is "homosexual."  And no, of course it does not in any way conflict with happiness.  :-)

          by browneyes on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:10:30 PM PDT

    •  I posted upstream, but I'll say it again.

      I used to do a lot of volunteer work for and with gay kids – a number of whom were cross-dressing kids thrown out of their homes and school and who experienced quite a lot of violence.

      And yes, I know firsthand kids who got beaten up by guys shouting "faggot," "pansy," and all manner of homophobic epithets.

      And where I live, I still hear some older white guys use it with obvious homophobic emphasis.

      so yes, it is a generational thing, but it has been used to actually hurt real people.

      I'm not gonna go to the mat over this, but I am gonna point out that the guy knew exactly what he was saying, and it is a gay-baiting code.

      If it doesn't pass through generation after generation, great!  But please, friends, don't deny that it has been used in conjunction with actual harm to gay kids - and it is still in use in some places, with some people, as homophobic, gay-baiting code.

      Not everyone who uses it means that.  But you'd better believe some do.  

      by RadioGirl on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:43:03 PM PDT

•  NYT blog

  be sure to check out the NYT blog entry on this controversy. both HRC and GLAAD are not mentioned.

  by MPetrelis on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:17:52 PM PDT

•  Take back the word "Pansy". It's a very durable

  flower that survives harsh winters.
  It's beautiful and strong.

  'nuff said.

  by Pogyak on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:23:17 PM PDT

  •  Pansies are tough

    Pansies are tough little flowers that thrive through the stormy mercurial days of early spring. But once the weather becomes consistently warm and the conditions more pleasant, pansies get lazy and spindly. They can only hold themselves under adversity.

    I pointed this out to a muscular, heavily-inked frequent-brawler ex-con. Now he refers to himself as a pansy.

    by Matthias on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:59:27 PM PDT

•  I thought he was condescending

  to Hillary as a woman too.  He seems to be a bigot.

  by llamaRCA on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:27:51 PM PDT

  •  We need to get over our fainting spells over

    every perceived slight.

    This isn't worth it.

    by Pogyak on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:30:19 PM PDT

    •  Perceived slight?

      What is the standard for determining what is a "perceived slight"?  I have a feeling it's anything that escapes your comprehension or your ability to understand how others might "perceive" it.

      I don't think we should be in the business of telling people whether slurs directed at them are "slight" and to scold them for having "fainting spells" - arguably a slur in itself.

      by Darmok on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:37:36 PM PDT

    •  No one's fainting, as you so "delicately" put it.

      And perhaps it isn't worth it to you, but I suppose, really, since it doesn't affect you, what difference does it make?

      Even your snide "fainting spell" remark is a slight, suggesting that those offended are somehow effeminate.

      Go troll somewhere else.

      by rontun on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:38:59 PM PDT

      •  I'm not fainting...

        I'm rolling my eyes instead.

        by tedshubris on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:35:24 PM PDT

    •  I'm not fainting

      and am rarely offended by slights but he was downright condescending about Hillary being a strong woman.  I am not much of a feminist but if I'd been Hillary I would have been pissed off by what he said.

      by llamaRCA on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:40:12 PM PDT

      •  Sheesh....the drama! The drama!

        lolol

        by Pogyak on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 08:01:11 PM PDT

•  Nice try, but...

  ...I think the use of "pansy" is just fine, honestly.  It's too bad we have notions of masculinity at all, but   we do, and Easley said that Clinton can beat macho men at their own game.  Which may in itself be off-putting to some people, but it doesn't have anything to do with gays or anti-gay slurs, etc.  The stereotype of gay men is that they conform to a pre-existing notion of the non-masculine man--not the other way around, as you suggest.  This is kind of metaphysical point, but since you're determined to drag Clinton and Easley through the mud about it and you're perplexed that gay rights groups won't help you, there's your reason.

  by Rich in PA on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:34:29 PM PDT

  •  It may be fine with you but...

    it doesn't have anything to do with gays or anti-gay slurs

    is factually wrong. You obviously are not a gay man who grew up in the 60's and 70's. I am, and in those days, pansy was a synonym for f@ggot; the words were used interchangeably.

    by Ian S on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:45:36 PM PDT

    •  Key phrase: "60's and 70's."

      The vocabulary of hatred changes. A lot.

      Until today, I never knew there was a connection (I'm 23). I heard the term used all the time in middle and high school, and it never carried any homophobic payload that I was aware of. For that matter, I had no idea "spazz" referred to a medical condition until Tiger Woods got crap for it. I think his usage here was at worst an innocently poor choice of words - in 2008, pansy means spineless or effeminate, but is usually used to describe straight men (i.e. those not expected to be effeminate, sociologically speaking).

      On the other hand, there's a chance the usage here is as a code word. If there's reason to believe he's trying to stir up some homophobia here, then I'll happily grab a torch and a pitchfork and join in the crowd. But he wasn't referring to Obama as a pansy, or even referring to Obama at all. Hell, he was talking about Rocky Balboa of all people. So it's hard for me to see this as homophobia baiting. And short of that, I'd have to see him as being a dumbass here, not a bigot.

      Shirley Schmidt: A Democrat.

      by Jyrinx on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:02:14 PM PDT

      •  Nope

        I don't think you're getting it.  It's not a matter of whether you are ignorant of the word's meaning - no offense, but Easley is not 23 and so he doesn't get the benefit of your excuse, which is not a good one anyway.

        Offensive speech isn't measured by your own personal theory about it.  Try using some other more notorious slurs in the slurred community and see how it is received when you explain that they're old school and you didn't mean it as a slur.

        The fact that he used the slur to denigrate a fictional character doesn't make it any better, by the way.  If it's used as a slur, it's slur.  

        by Darmok on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:16:29 PM PDT

        •  No, in this case ignorance *is* a defense.

          Are you really telling me that using an offensive word without realizing it is as bad as intentionally using it to hurt someone?

          And yes, if I make a faux pas and unwittingly slurred a group of people in a room (which I've done before ...), I deserve to get crap for it. Ignorance in this case is insensitivity, particularly for a public speaker. But it's still very, very different from openly, intentionally employing homophobic language.

          What it may come down to, then, is whether he apologizes (sincerely). Like I said, it's still an offense to use a slur; I don't mean he should get a free pass.

          (And my point in splitting hairs over Rocky is that it would've been worse to have actually called Obama, or anyone, a pansy. That would be a different matter, for reasons having nothing to do with fiction.)

          Shirley Schmidt: A Democrat.

          by Jyrinx on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:49:59 PM PDT

          •  Easley is not 23. n/t

            by dconrad on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:57:53 PM PDT

            •  Very true.

              I must concede I've been displaying my naïve streak here - something in me wants to believe he was just being a dumbass. (I'm prone to finding excuses for people.)

              Shirley Schmidt: A Democrat.

              by Jyrinx on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:13:39 PM PDT

          •  Not in this case

            So I'm supposed to believe that a 58 year old North Carolina man uses the word "pansy" the same way a 23 year old uses it?  I don't think so.

            And it's really not a matter of trying to decide whether he was trying to "stir up homophobia."  People use words that are offensive in many different way, including a casual manner that is casual because we've all become somewhat desensitized to it.  

            That doesn't mean that the word isn't offensive, and I'm still curious why you are so wedded to the idea that you and Easley are soul mates who have the same understanding of "pansy."

            by Darmok on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:12:53 PM PDT

            •  No, you're right.

              See above on my naïveté.

              Shirley Schmidt: A Democrat.

              by Jyrinx on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:20:43 PM PDT

      •  Well, you see...

        I would give you a pass if you happened to say it. I agree that it's in all likelihood a more or less obsolete term except for those of us old guys who endured it growing up. But Easley is my age not yours and he would be used to it as a put-down for gay men. Now I suspect it just slipped out and I'm not going to bash Hillary for it since she didn't say it. But it provides me with enough information about Easley to suspect he's no great friend of the GLBT community.

        by Ian S on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 08:30:39 PM PDT

•  Human Rights Campaign

  actually objects to something a Clinton surrogate said that slurs gays and lesbians.

  I am shocked.

  Shocked.

  It was my understanding that the HRC bent over regarding HRC and WJC over gay issues.

  by Crisis Corps Volunteer on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:46:19 PM PDT

  •  Umm...

    Did you read the entire diary?

    by Ian S on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:49:28 PM PDT

•  Urban Dictionary

   sez:

  1.   pansy  

  A sissy, fag, fairy, or one that is generally unmanly.

  2.   pansy

  girly and sissy-like.

  3.   Pansy  

  (n) a plant of the genera Achimenes or Viola possesssing a distinctive purple tint and demeanor; (n) one who lacks the appropiate masculinity associated with testosterone and like the pansy displays a shade of purple and a flower like demeanor but is however a fruit.

  I'm gay and I know Hillary's support is suspect, like everything else she does (never mentions gay anything except at gay events).

  That being said, I don't think this shows anything other than just more of the same dino support for Clinton, like her other superdelegate of the day, gay rights opposing Ike Skelton.

  by jarotra on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:47:50 PM PDT

  •  I think it's generational...

    and your except from the Urban Dictionary appears to confirm that. That said, Easley is of the older generation that would have used pansy and f@ggot interchangeably as derogatory terms for gay men. I'm not alone in believing it's an anti-gay slur.

    by Ian S on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:59:44 PM PDT

•  I wonder where the Human Rights Campaign

  got the idea for their initials.

  by stevie314159 on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:51:10 PM PDT

  •  LOL!

    I was thinking the same thing.  I have to pay close attention to the context in which "HRC" is used to figure out which HRC is the subject.

    by browneyes on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:18:38 PM PDT

•  Unfortunately, words are things and

  MPetrelis, I'm just truly saddened to see on your blog, the young gay men in Iran about to be hung just for being who they are.

  by shwing on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:12:40 PM PDT

  •  Ahmadinejad said that there were no gay men in

    Iran.  I guess he wants to keep it that way.  :-(

    Disgusting is too soft a term.  I'm not sure there is a descriptive appropriate for this atrocity.

    by browneyes on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:23:07 PM PDT

•  Double Standard

  Where is the outrage from Elton John?  Where is the outrage from the same gay newspapers in PA who was mad at Obama because he would not talk with them, but finally did. Where is the outrage that Hillary won't even say the word gay in a speech????  Where is the outrage of Hillary spouting how much she cares about gays when she supported DOMA.  Wher is the outrage from GLAAD????

  by rssrai on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:07:14 PM PDT

•  Different interpretations

  Clearly the word 'pansy' seems to have different meanings for different people, so all I can do is offer my experience.

  I am a straight 61-year-old female and I found the statement truly offensive and could not believe that Hillary just kept on grinning and smiling through it.

  by lesliet on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 09:08:21 PM PDT

•  Glad we didn't get Easley's endorsement!

  Because, honey, if Easley had said that while endorsing Obama, oh my, my! Hillary would be demanding a diss-association in no uncertain terms. And her "Obama! McClurckin! Oh No!" bots would be posting merrily away! Whatever. Easley deserved a "correction", but not while Hillary's trying to get the "blue collar" vote, not in her poll-driven world! Thanks, Hil, I was getting tired of so much phonebanking, but tomorrow I'll do twice as much, thinking of you and your anti-pansy-self! And Yes Hillary, Obama did win San Francisco!! And Oakland too! Ta-ta, dahling!

  by inaru on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:33:49 AM PDT